Forgotten Lore

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Forgotten Lore
Quest Giver Olivia Meronin – Winterhold College Arcanaeum
Locations Arcanaeum, Shadowgreen Cavern, Windhelm Warehouse, Wreck of the Winter War, Graywinter Watch, Falkreath Watchtower, Ironback Hideout
Prerequisites None
Related Quests The Radiant Dark
Enemy Level PC x 1 Class LvlWarlockBoss
Quest ID CWQQ2 Editor ID 02038120
NPCs Olivia, Jadro’Ra, Erith, Arryn Grey, Lyanna, Melisandre, Fisherman
Reward Olivia’s Staff(Wall of Flames), Gold(1000)

The very first quest introduced into the mod, the skeleton of which was taken from Roarian’s mod of the same name. He transferred over his scripts, ideas and characters upon which the dialogue and story was built. The quest starter Meronin was renamed Olivia Meronin, to account for the overabundance of male roles early in development. Each of the five mages is based off a boss level warlock template, but Lyanna(Alteration) and Erith(Restoration) are given their own spells to account for their school of magic. The names for the mages are predominately taken from A Song of Ice and Fire, with the exception of Erith who is named after the Final Fantasy character.

Finding Jadro’Ra
Olivia will indicate Jadro’Ra will likely be in one of the caverns along the northern shore. The exact location is Shadowgreen Cavern, where the Khajiit will reveal he shadowed another mage, who at this point remains nameless. The identity of the leader of this group is revealed during the events of The Radiant Dark.

Olivia’s Advice
Upon returning to Olivia with Jadro’Ra’s information, she will ask the PC to retrieve the notes from the rogue mages. In addition to giving basic information on the five schools of magic, Olivia will tell the five stories which Vanus Galerion told of his youth, each alluding to the school of magic the spell tome contains.

  • Illusion – The illusion story tells the tale of how Vanus’ father told him to never reference things he learned from his studies, as the mention of a beast from a faraway land would clue his master into realizing the boy had been educated.
  • Alteration – As the nature of alteration is not to deceive, but alter reality, such is the story of how Vanus’ mother’s anxiety made her worst fears come true.
  • Destruction – Vanus’ anger transforms into rage, as his screams fill the night’s hollows.
  • Restoration – Vanus escapes but at the cost of his constitution. However, a band of troubadours nurses him back to health.
  • Conjuration – In his time with the troubadours, Vanus learns the value of conjuration, and the ability to always summon laughter, even in times of sorrow.

Mage of Destruction
At the top of Falkreath Watchtower. The warlock is disabled for the purpose of this quest and enabled upon finish.

Mage of Conjuration
Graywinter Watch. In versions prior to 2.38, corpses are enabled at game start. In subsequent iterations, the corpses will be enabled for this part of the quest and disabled upon its conclusion.

Mage of Restoration
Windhelm Warehouse. A restoration mage and bandits will spawn in the warehouse, but can be led outside in order to attract the guard and remove their inherent advantage.

Mage of Alteration
Unlike illusion mages where the trick is performed through misdirection, the alteration bandits wear their names and act accordingly. The difference is they are dressed in farm clothes, and the attempt is to lower the PC’s unconscious aggression by making him/her question whether they should be attacking or if they’ve encountered a bug. As such, the altered behavior is real as opposed to a game mechanic.

Mage of Illusion
Found at The Wreck of the Winter War, the Fisherman is deliberately set up to appear like a vanilla prisoner, hence the illusion. Originally, the quest marker was designed to appear over the dead body, but a lack of CK knowledge also prevented many of the desired effects, including preventing the PC from pickpocketing the missing page. However, releases after 2.38 will incorporate the misleading quest marker, with a fake page placed on the dead fisherman as seen below.

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Forgotten Lore (CWQQ2)
Stage Information
0 Speaking to Olivia, she will inform you that her assistant, Jadro’Ra, has gone missing.
10 Jadro’Ra can be found at Shadowgreen Cavern, where he is lying wounded and dying.
15 Upon his death, Jadro’Ra hands you notes on the location of five wizards who may be in possession of the stolen documents.
20 After returning the notes to Olivia, she will ask you to track down the mages and recover the missing pages.
90 Olivia will reward the player 100 gold per page. Retrieving all five pages will set the stage to 90.
200 After receiving all 5 pages, Olivia will reward the player with a staff and 500 gold. She will then go about the business of decoding the texts, and make note that Jadro’Ra’s killer is still at large.

Notes: The scripting for this quest happens primarily through dialogue. Meaning, setting the stage through the console may not produce the desired effect, as the enabling of various NPCs is done through the fragment scripts attached to the conversations as opposed to the quest’s main script. Roarian wrote and encrypted the pages, which each have various messages contained within.

19 thoughts on “Forgotten Lore”

  1. I love this mod, first off. :) So.. I have been doing this quest, and found all the pages. I then stumbled on the Radiant Darks place, I’m not going into detail in case anyone is reading this, And returned to winterhold, tried to give Olivia the texts, and she just says “you’re back, what did you find” that’s it, she wont even open dialogue with me, I don’t know what Happened.

    1. the radiant dark place should be locked unless you are doing that quest. there was an older version of the mod where the door was unlocked, perhaps it got grandfathered in.

      unfortunately, it probably breaks both quests. you need to reset the radiant dark quest(don’t know if possible), or go back to an earlier save. forgotten lore should be unaffected so long as radiant dark is at stage 0.

  2. This is a great quest, and I love the idea for the Illusion page, but I have a suggestion.

    When I picked up the “fake” illusion page, I just thought that my game was glitching, and that the quest wasn’t triggering right. I got very frustrated and left. A better way of doing this would be to have the quest trigger when you get the illusion page, so that at least the player knows that nothing is wrong. Give the player the option to give the fake page to Olivia, and have her call him/her out on being a doofus.

    Last part is optional, but really cool: give the player the option to talk to the fake fisherwoman and make her suitably suspicious. The quest would be fine without it, but with it, it’d be perfect.

    Thanks.

    1. yeah, it’s an old, old quest, and scripted by a different person.

      your idea is a good one, but with old quests, it’s mostly logistical issues that prevent stuff like this from being implemented. flagging kelly down and getting her to record new lines, altering the fisherman to be a unique npc instead of random are 2 issues, but there’s also the problem of altering the mechanics of the script itself.

      Adding the fake page and fisherman didn’t alter the structure of the quest – if they didn’t exist, the quest still could be completed – so it was okay to add them and not worry about the repercussions. However, anything more intrusive would probably break the quest for all but new saves, and breaking forgotten lore also means breaking the radiant dark.

      but as this seems to be a problem, what i can do is try and add a failed objective followed by an additional objective to clear up the confusion.

    2. hmm…upon further inspection i may be able to add this without interfering with the quest structure – by having Olivia check the contents of your inventory and adding some additional objectives which don’t alter the stages. The only hangup is getting Kelly to voice new lines.

      edit: Okay, while I plan on asking Kelly anyway, just in case I think I have a backup plan, with a little editing.

      [audio src="https://3dnpc.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/dialogueol_dialogueolivia1_00229d10_11.wav" /]

  3. I love this quest. Honestly, this is the sort of thing that the vanilla College of Winterhold Questline should have done AT LAUNCH, a simulation of LEARNING about magic, not just “Oh, you can cast one ward, that’s good work, you’re ready to go on a field trip and then up against magickal horrors!” I like the way this quest builds up and teaches you the player of some applications that are easily missed or forgotten, and Olivia comes off as a stern but very good teacher.

  4. A couple criticisms I have for this quest. First up, I absolutely loved the references in the names! I also loved the Illusion/Destruction mages. However, the other mages were either not working, or just bland. The Conjuration mage didn’t even cast a conjuration spell at me. The mage casted purely destruction magic. I loved the gimmick with the Restoration mage and I saw how the fight was supposed to work, but again, it did not work out that way. The Restoration mage just kept flinging destruction spells at my party and I until we routed her. Finally, the Alteration mage was the same. This one actually did use some Alteration spells that made it harder to kill the mage, but yet again, the mage resorted to using too much destruction magic as opposed to her primary school. Overall, I loved the quest and thought it had a great story, but I would love to see more diversity.

    1. 1. In testing, the conjuration mage typically raises one of the corpses on the ground. However, player levels can alter their behavior. The AI is generally not under my control unless I force some package or script and complicate things. Conjuration seemed to work well enough, but could default to destruction at low levels.

      2. Restoration is the one that is the largest problem because the AI refuses to heal other people. This may require some forcing, but they were techniques none of us knew about at the time. I can try and integrate some kind of heal script but I’m not sure how that will work.

      3. As you stated alteration magic is definitely used, and the destruction magic should be weak. But it depends on the level. More importantly, the alteration is not the spell. It’s the clothes.

      The difference between alteration and illusion is that alteration is not a trick. It alters the world. The bad guys waiting for you are dressed as commoners but they attack on sight. The idea here is that they aren’t posing as commoners. They’re just dressed differently than typical hostiles. They are altering the pre-established rules of engagement, and perhaps subconsciously making you pause to attack them. Whereas the illusion mage is not hostile, he’s clearly trying to trick you. That distinction in clothing and behavior is important.

  5. Ah, I totally missed what you guys were going for with the alteration mage. Now that you explain it, I really like what you guys did. However, if I missed it, I’m sure other people missed the concept too. Your team is obviously talented and you probably don’t want to take some advice from some guy with less experience in modding, but, maybe somehow you guys can make it more obvious that that was the point. Because to me, I walked into the warehouse and they just attacked me on the spot. I didn’t even realize they were wearing commoner clothes until you just mentioned it.

    As for the restoration mage, I saw on your front page that you guys were trying to make it work, so I hope you guys can make it work!

    I don’t know what you would do about the conjuration mage though, because that was the mage I was looking forward to the most and the fight ended up being kind of a let down. Even raising one corpse from the ground doesn’t seem like a master conjuration mage’s power. In my opinion to make the fight a little more epic, you should run a little script that when you enter combat with the conjuration mage (or maybe when she hits a certain health percent), she uses the Ritual Stone spell where it raises all of the corpses in an area for 60 seconds. Maybe buff the corpses being raised and/or increase the time they stay alive.

    I only give these criticisms not to insult the creativity and hard work behind this quest or this mod, but only because I love this mod you guys created and I want to see it grow. I’m sure that’s what you guys want to. Again, thank you for creating and updating this mod, and let me know what you think of these ideas.

    1. Suggestions are always welcome, they help make the mod better.

      Yeah, you might not notice the clothes consciously, but I do think alteration is still represented in the magic. Of course, a lot of this is contingent on your level. The really offensive alteration spells like paralysis are more prevalent on higher levels, and really compliment the melee fighters in the same way restoration was supposed to.

      When you proceed to the next quest (Radiant Dark), the enemies are purely sorcerers, however.

      As for conjuration, the rising of twenty or so corpses was actually the original inspiration but I could never get it to work in practice. Adding the ritual stone spell/perk/ability is something I tried previously but the NPC wouldn’t cast it. I never tried a script before today though, but the results weren’t good.

      I do think it’s possible, however, because I’m pretty sure the vanilla game did it. There was a bunch of draugr that rise from the ground at one point. I’ll have to google the name of the dungeon.

    2. if I can’t find a way to make the ritual stone work, apprentice conjurers to help raise more corpses might help.

      edit: although i think somewhere it said the conjuration mage likes privacy, i’ll have to check that.

      1. Apprentice conjurers would be fantastic for a next patch until you figure out how to do it with just the one. Another option that I used to use when I programmed through Gamemaker was use invisible triggers. Such as make an invisible and invincible necromancer that only has and uses the raise dead spell. Then, when the master conjurer dies, make it so the invisible/invincible necromancer dies at the same time. Either make a trigger or link both of their health together. Honestly, I don’t know if you can do that in the creation kit, for I have never used it.

      2. I think adding apprentice conjurers would be a fantastic idea. Another option would also be to add an invisible trigger if the creation kit would let you. Add an invisible and invincible conjurer to the room that only has the raise dead spell. Lock her in a cage so the mage can cast Raise Dead, but can’t melee attack you. Maybe you wouldn’t even need to make the mage invisible if you tie it into the quest. Add a journal on the ground explaining the situation while making it lore-friendly so you wouldn’t have to alter any of Olivia’s dialogue.

      3. Also another thing, the description up above says that the restoration mage could be found in the Windhelm Warehouse, but I actually found the alteration mage there. The restoration mage along with her bandits were somewhere up north in the open-world. Either the quest has them in the wrong position or the description is wrong. If the quest has switched these 2 mages locations, maybe that is why I was so confused about the alteration mage’s gimmick, because I walked into the warehouse and they instantly attacked me. I could see how if I met the alteration mage in the open-world, I could mistake them for commoners.

        1. possible you just got them mixed up given there’s 5 of them.

          the page, and by virtue the objective pointer is in the right place. age of the quest would likely confirm this as well.

          got the conjuration to work. there’s a spell called dunReanimateSelf. Not sure what it’s used for, really, but it works provided you make sure they’re all in the same faction or else they attack each other. Will start with 4 hostiles(that’s 4 + whatever the conjurer raises and see how that plays, and add more or less depending on feedback).

  6. Hi, it’s a trivial thing but I’ve never realized it: Jadro’Ra is referring to Olivia when he’s asking about the Secunda and Masser favour?

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